Apr
10
2009
3:57 am

The “Long Awaited” LNC/Archtype Anal(ysis)

Because this is seriously retarded.

Edit: Clarification, I don’t think that the EN population is retarded; I think that neoX/Mappou and Arcnet/Michael are retarded. Huge difference here.

Firstly, I’m ignoring things like claymore and other LNC weapon/armor sold in the regular stores as no one use them for any end game purposes. The only thing that I’ll take into consideration are the LNC cloaks.

Law cloak adds 10% damage vs chaos
Chaos cloak adds 10% damage vs law
Neutral cloak adds 10% damage vs chaos and law.

At the end of the day, there are only 2 dungeons and 2 mob’s whoose LNC actually matter: Power in Sugi Gold (law) and Jikokuten in Ichigaya Gold. (chaos)

Secondly, I’m ignoring devils since at the end of the day, devils are just for support/healing purposes and they are only useful for damage if you’re willing to dump in the effort to reunion them a lot of times; and even so, their damage are mainly for eye-candy or pvp purposes.

Melee

Law

Only three crystals are of use to a law melee character: Odin (weapon), Uriel (ring) and Pazuzu (Extra)

Odin makes a weapon does hama damage, and if you’re law, you do 10% additional hama damage.

Hama isn’t really a common weakness outside of some parts of Ichigaya so the 10% hama damage doesn’t really come into play much. In addition, there are weapons like Danzai that does hama damage by default, so you can enchant a racial enchant like principality, which adds 20% damage against mobs from the Yuuki/Haunt and that cover most stuff that’s weak only to hama.

Uriel adds 5% melee damage, 0.5% chance/level to absorb fire attacks and you take 50% additional ice damage.
If law, you gain +50% melee damage if your HP drops below 30%
If chaos, your skills costs an additional 50% hp

Uriel’s +50% melee damage is pretty hard to trigger unless you disable heals from all devils in your party. Devils are coded to heal a party member once their hp drops to 60-70%. Moreoever, most melee have around 500-700hp and 30% hp is a mere 150-210hp. I doubt anyone wants to keep their hp that low just so that they can do 50% more damage. Most melee also avoid using Uriel’s crystal in Ichigaya Gold too because of the ice damage penalty.

Pazuzu gives 5% chance to absorb zan/shock attacks. If you’re law, you gain 15% zan/shock damage.

While zan/shock isn’t a common weakness, there are some things that don’t take reduced damage to it. e.g. Fenrir in Sugi Gold.

Technically Melee can use Mithra as well. Mithra adds 5 magic to the whole party, and +10% shot damage. If you’re law, you gain 0.25% chance/level to void a slashing/piercing/blunt attack. This works out to a 23.25% chance to void the default melee attacks from all mobs.

However, a melee gain pretty much 0 advantage from the magic/shot boast, so it’s mostly a waste seeing how expensive mithra crystals are to manufacture.

Neutral

Neutral has two crystals that gives quite an advantage to melee: Chernobog(head) and Tanki(Top)

Chernobog adds 10 str, and you take 30% more blunt damage and 20% more fire damage. If neutral, you gain another 5 str, bringing the total boast to 15str

Tanki grants 30% knockback prevention, 100% if you’re neutral but you’ll also take 50% additional damage.

No knockback is quite a huge advantage for melee as it prevent you from being stunned by skills/spells as well. This means you can use your normal attack and/or use an item at all times.

Got countered? Not a problem, you can land the next hit immediately if you’ve tanki enchanted. A devil threw a spell at you? Again not a problem as you recover instantly and can quickly walk up and attack them.

The additional damage is a pain to deal with though, but can be alleviated by hotkeying two different healing items and spamming them if you get attacked.

Chaos

This is where the better crystals are at.

Zouchouten (feet), Jikokuten (top), Koumokuten (legs), Bishamonten (head), Shikiouji (ring), King Frost (back), Ookuninushi (top), Surt (weapon), Arahabaki (weapon) and Loki (weapon) are crystals that give additional benefits for being chaos.

Firstly, the 4 kings. As a tarot(slot 1) enchant, Bishamonten give +1 str, +2 sta, another +2 str if you’re chaos. This bring the total boast to 3str, 2 sta. Considering that there are 13 slots that you can tarot enchant, this means a 13str advantage over formorian/fenrir/other crystals that grant only 2 str for tarot.

This is also higher than the 5str bonus conferred by Chernobog.

As a set bonus, the 4 kings grant:

+10% damage to all skills which depends on weapons for damage type. (IOWs every melee skill)
+10% rush/spin damage
+ 15 int
+ 15 stamina
Rush takes 60% longer to cast
Spin’s cooldown increased by 120%

If chaos, you gain these additional bonuses:
+5% slash/blunt/pierce damage
+10% damage against law enemies.

If law, you gain these penalties:
-100hp
-15 p.attack

As I’ve mentioned before, rush isn’t really a main form of attack for melee once they get geared up with lottery items as lottery tend to favor spin/attack stuff for melee.

Increased spin cooldown though is quite a penalty, but it’s partially alleviated by the fact that you’ve 3 different spin at class 5 and 4 different spin at class 7 to use. Also, stamina reduce cooldown after a patch, which mitigate some of the cooldown increase.

The 15 int also make is possible for melee to have a +50% enhance as they only need to find 85 int from somewhere else.

Now, for the other crystals.

Shikiouji grants 0.1% chance/level to absorb lighting attacks, +5% attack damage and you take 25% more rifle damage. If chaos, your lighting attack does 5% additional damage.

Take note that the attack here refers to your basic attack. It will not affect your spin/rush/etc…. Lighting isn’t really a common weakness, so the chaos only bonus for this isn’t really that important. Because Uriel isn’t really that advisable in Ichigaya Gold, most melee go for Shikiouji for their ring.

King Frost grants 0.5% chance/level to void ice attacks. If you’re chaos and in a party, your party gains 30hp.

The base void ice effect works out to 46.5% at 93. 30hp is quite a boast and on top of that, everyone in your party gets it. 5 chaos character in a party with it = 150hp. Easily 50% more hp for most who have 0 sta in their stats.

Ookuninushi, if you’re in a party, your party gains 25hp. If you’re chaos, your party gain 5 sta and 5 int. Again, 5 chaos character in a party with it = 125hp, 25sta and 25int

The int will again help in enhance/melee builds

Arahabaki is basically the mirror crystal of Odin. It grants mudo damage to a weapon and if you’re law, you do 10% additional mudo damage.

Again same thing as Odin. Mudo just isn’t that common a weakness and there are again weapons that does mudo damage by default like Death. Racial enchants are again situationally better.

Surt and Loki are two crystals that apparently half the EN population on the Japanese server have a problem understanding how they work at one point or another.

Surt adds 20% damage against the God family. If chaos, you do 10% additional fire damage. If law, you get -10 str and -10 speed.

The God family boast is next to useless as literally the only one this boast works against is Hathor in Cell Bronze.

The 10% additional fire damage however if a pretty good boast as unlike hama/mudo, fire is common as hell. There are also no racial enchantments against elements (Sugi Gold) and the 4 kings (Ichi Gold), so as long as you have a weapon that does fire damage by default, this is pretty much a preferred enchant for it.

Loki’s crystal let you use the skill, bloody attack, which is basically a normal melee attack that heals you 15% of the damage it cause. If chaos, you gain +15% magic(read, the damage type). If law, your magic attack does 10% less damage.

The bloody attack skill is pretty much worthless. +15% damage though is fairly useful. Magic damage however is only required in two instance: against Kirins in Ichigaya and Aeros in Sugi Gold.

If you’ve a weapon that does magic damage, Sentanta (+20% damage against Seijuu/Holy Beast) will takes care of Kirins. Elements again don’t have a racial enchant against them, so Loki helps with Aeros.


Conclusion for Melee

Unless I’m blind, Chaos have a huge advantage over Neutral, and in turn Neutral have a small, but decent advantage over Law in terms of melee characters.

I sure as hell don’t see how “A warrior has a lot to gain from Law as well. ” unless you consider suiciding with Uriel an advantage.


Gunners

Unlike mages/melee which I’ve first hand experiences with, admittedly, I don’t have much experience with gunners as I don’t play one.

While I did mention earlier than I’ll ignore weapons, for gunners, there are 3 elemental relic guns. They do ice/lightning/shock damage and have a +15% rapid boast, +15% ice/lighting/shock boast. If chaos, they do +10% additional gun damage.

Chalk this up as an advantage for chaos.

Law

There are four crystals that grant an advantage for a law gunner.

Mithra(head), Odin(Weapon), Hresvelgr(Back), Pazuzu(Extra)

Odin and Pazuzu is already covered in the melee section, so look up.

Mithra is also covered but unlike melee, the normal bonus for +5 magic and 10% shot helps a lot for gunners who use magic bullet.

Hresvelgr adds 10 speed, 5 int and -10 mp regen. If law, when your HP drops below 20%, you do 50% more gun damage.

Like Uriel, this bonus isn’t really used that often. It’s even worst since it activates at 20% vs 30% for Uriel.

Neutral

There are crystals that provide advantages for neutral gunners…? I guess you can consider tanki to be one since no knockback = no stun = not affected by stun dodge. But that’s about it for neutral gunners.

Chaos

For chaos, the advantages are pretty much the same list as melee, except the 4 kings/shikiouji is removed. Useful crystals are: King Frost (back), Ookuninushi (top), Surt (weapon), Arahabaki (weapon) and Loki (weapon).

Scroll up and view them in detail.


Conclusion for Gunners

Unlike melee, some choices that favor chaos don’t really applied to gunners. Firstly, magic damage isn’t that important for gunners compare to melee as Aeros is weak to rifles and Kirin can be gunned down with rifles.

This makes Loki less attractive for gunners.

In addition, guns that does fire elemental damage isn’t common, compare to fire based melee weapons, so, most gunners have to enchant their weapon with flamis, to do fire damage, resulting in surt being less attractive as well.

Ultimately is down to 0.25% chance/level to void slash/blunt/pierce vs HP boast from King Frost/Ookuninushi, and I’ll say they are quite even.

The elemental relic guns, mentioned earlier tips the scale in favor of chaos slightly. Neutral? Don’t bother.

“Gunners gain a lot from Neutral I believe. ” <-- What?


Mages

Law

Pretty much only 3 crystals that favor law: Mithra(head), Pazuzu(Extra) and Takemikazuchi(Ring)

Takemikazuchi is basically a mirror of shikiouji. 0.1% chance/level to absorb lighting attacks, +5% rush damage and you take 25% more rifle damage. If law, your lighting attack does 5% additional damage.

I seriously can’t remember the last time I use a lighting spell/rush so this advantage might as well not exist.

Unlike gunners, mages do get into melee range so the 0.25% void slash/blunt/piece from Mithra is more important to mages than gunners.

Mages also only have 4 damage type so +15% zan/shock is quite important as well.

Neutral

The only advantage a neutral mage has is Hel, which grants a 20% cooldown reduction for ice skills.

Considering that rushes have no cooldown, this is only useful for destructive magic and the only place you use ice spells is Sugi Gold. Sugi Gold + spell cast = aggro = swarmed.

Chaos

4 crystals are of use to chaos mages: King Frost (back), Ookuninushi (top), Surt (weapon), Hecate (top)

First 3 already covered earlier, so explanation for Hecate.

If you’re in a party, Hecate grants 3 magic to everyone in it. If chaos, you gain +50% magic damage if your HP drops below 30%.

Same problem with Uriel, this bonus just don’t activate that often, and it’s generally suicidal.

In addition, mages typically have around 300-450hp, which means the effect triggers at 90-135hp.

Conclusion for Mages

Ultimately it’s down to 2 things: 0.25%/level to void pierce/blunt/slash and 15% zan damage vs 10% fire damage and group HP boast

The suicidal 50% magic damage shouldn’t even be factored in this.

For Sugi Gold, the 15% zan/shock is definitely better as basically out of boss room/nightmares, zan will be the most common attack for a mage, making Law better here.

Zan is the most common attack for 1 reason: reflects. Use freezing lance/deloran and you’ve quite a high chance of getting your attack reflected back at you. Out of aeros, everything in Sugi Gold takes 100% zan damage.

At a certain point, once you start to 1 hit Kerberos constantly with Kamaitachi, there’s no reason not to use it to cut through rooms with mobs of mixed resistance.

A mage can easily 2 hit any of the element boss, other than aeros so a 10% fire boast isn’t that significant here.

For Ichi Gold, mages use only fire so the 10% fire boast tips it towards chaos.

Personal bias aside (I’m Law), I’ll say that Law/Chaos are quite balanced, with neutral lacking quite a fair bit.

<Personal Bias>
To me, unlike melee/gunners, mages output a huge amount of fire damage. Pretty much anything that don’t void/reflect fire can be killed within 2/3 delorean rushes. The only enemy a mage might have problem with is gandharvas and there’s a racial enchant against them.

Something is awfully wrong if you rely on Hecate’s 50% boast as a damage source when mages easily 1 hit gandharvas without fragrances.

I’ll seriously rate the 50% boast @ 30% hp as useful as the lighting boast from Takekmikazuchi.

0.25% chance/level to void pierce/blunt/slash have saved me from Jikokuten’s deathbound countless times. I’ll take that over an unreliable 50% boast that won’t activate 90% of the time.
</Personal Bias>

Random Tip: Most mages don’t use hel/decarabia/elf after the patch that modifies expert skills. People only use paravasti if they are running enhance/rush or enhance/destructive magic only.

Anna and I, along with most 80-93 mages run with full flamis because no one cares about other damage type in Ichigaya Gold. No one cares about Suginami Gold since xp there is significantly slower.

Random Tip #2: Hecate’s +3 magic to group bonus work even if you’re not chaos. Please learn to read Mr. neoX/mappou/botter/item stealer. ONLY the 50% damage bit depends on your character being chaos.


Expect a part II to this as enhancer/etc… aren’t covered yet.

45 Comments

  • Al says:

    Sorry to bother you, would you mind explaining Sharpshoot sometime or pointing me to somewhere that explains it preferably in something that isn’t Google Translate’s mangled engrish? I play on Aeria’s server and I’m mostly interested in using it for non-gun damage, but also need tips on how to level it and if it’s worth it at all.

    • Anna says:

      Dear confused Al, Sharpshoot is a toggle type skill that when turned on, you’ll inflict 30% more damage to certain racial types enemies, drawback? you’ll receive 10% more damage on ALL type of damage (melee, ranged, and magic) for EACH switch turned on. so if you have 4 toggles on then you’ll receive 40% more damage from enemies’ attacks. (which is a crapload of “ouch”)

      Please note that the racial type it covers are actually the broader type, not the spesific type. For example, class 1-5 sharpshoot actually will make you inflict damage to anything beasts, like cerberus/orthrus (majuu)+ fenrirs/gyuuki (youjuu)+ kirins/haktaks (seijuu)+ apis (shinjuu). The class 4-5 will affect fallen angels (daitenshi) and angels (tenshi) too.

      Prerequisite is rather troublesome on demonology though, you must have min. class 2-0 demonology, class 2-0 shot, and class 1 gun knowledge.

      demonology can only be raised thru negotiating with treasure balls (just normal greetings wont raise it) and fusions

      Tips on how I level demonology fast on my gunner to 3-0 in just 2 hours.
      You’ll need:
      1.demon storage ticket.
      2.an alt char with 1-5 conversation skill on same account.
      3.a 1.5x speed bell (on self only is okay)
      4.expert skill fragrance x5
      5.lots of treasure balls
      6.uhm, and makkas to buy balls and do fusions.

      How to do it:
      put your sharpshoot char in souhonzan since that city have the nearest distance from terminal to jakyou, use skill fragrancex5, speed bell, demon storage ticket.

      Next, log to your alt and get that alt to acquire low level devils or something you please. Then after his/her slots got full, dump your newly obtained devils to demon storage, repeat again till demon storage got full.

      Log in to your sharpshoot char and fuse away everything in your storage. (speed bell will help you move back forward faster), once storage empty again, log to your alt and start getting devils again.

      One thing you need to know about:
      Failed fusion actually also raises demonology but the raise is lower than successful fusion itself, if login and logout is troublesome to you, try to fuse a devil with low single digit %tage like chu chulainn. chain failed fusions in succession would increase demonology more conveniently to certain extent.

      Does sharpshoot worth it? depends on how you see 30% more damage on broader type race ^^
      For more oomph to your damage, get those brute/sprite/ elements/icon/holy talismans, it’ll help you deal 20% more damage but to spesific small race only.

      (note to fifi, yes, according to what those people write, I am so dumb to turn my mage to law and my gunner to chaos) but hey, please remember our klan motto.

      • Anna says:

        Oh almost forgot, if you dont have the items for fast demonology levelling, you can just giving out candy balls to mobs, but it’s really slow to raise this way though.

      • 守護霊母Finella says:

        I always welcome questions.

        To add on to what Anna said, pretty much everyone that cares about damage use sharpshoot before the patch.

        Ultimately it’s down to how much class/rank you want to get in it.

        Basically 2-5 for Ichigaya Gold and 3-0 for Suginami Gold.

        Class 1 gun knowledge
        Class 2 demonology
        Class 5 shoot
        8000 expert skill total

        Will net 3-0 sharpshoot (Elements, Beast and Magical Beings).

        Only thing not affected are Powers as the toggle that deal with them is at 4-5; too much expert skill points needed to reach there.

        Class 1 gun knowledge
        Class 2 demonology
        Class 4 shoot
        7000 expert skill total

        Will net you 2-5 sharpshoot (Beast, Magical Beings)

        Only thing not affected are the 4 kings as the toggle that deal with them is at 4-5; again, too much expert skill points needed to reach there.

        2-5 is also enough to cover pretty much every other boss/dungeon.

        Assuming that you’ve 0 speed, shoot is quite easy to raise. Grab a handgun with lowest rng.attack, fill your inventory with bullets and head to the comp-hack in 3rd home or virtual battle.

        If you’re unethical, you can macro your shoot up in comp-hack as you’ll most likely do single digit damage against the high pixies in there once your gun broke, and they’ll pretty much out-heal/regen whatever damage you do to them.

  • Anna says:

    Oh, fifi. You forgot to mention the ookunikushi mashou +1str to PT member is “balanced” thing, “balanced” which means 5 full ooku melee in a pt will net you +65 str to whole people (+13str x5 people).

    Dear people, please compare this to full slot bishamonten mashou (13x +3 str = +39str).
    Well, even 11 ookus can net you with 55 str (minus seirei’s enchant on elemental weapon/extra since elemental 2% damage up > +10 str if your melee value is above 110 or 120).

    now imagine 5 chaos melee with ookus mashous and kongou, +65 str AND 125hp, 25sta and 25int (which actually means they dont even need a dedicated enhancer since one of those guys just need 75 int and enhance 2-0 aka melee/enhance hybrid)

    IMAGINE is so baransu! ^^

    • 守護霊母Finella says:

      Well, with Bishamonten now, need 4/5 melee in party before Ookuninushi > Bishamonten. Not really that practical these days I guess.

      There’s also Mithra(5 magic) + Hecate (3 magic) x 5 = 40 magic group bonus.

  • Anna says:

    news flash! It’s easy to change LNC in imagine with donations ^^

    http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=921999&topic=48946182&page=1

    let’s see, my gunner is at jiboshin and if i want her to be law, i should try to move her lnc to chirei. Based on this page (click on LNC kifu one)
    http://homepage3.nifty.com/sherry/imagine/

    I only need to pay 790k makka and wait for 16 days ^^
    Of course 790k makka on 16 days wait is easy and cheap and hassle free. Another proofless statement by our glorious Michael-sama that Megaten is eezy.

    Now, suppose fifi want to go to chaos (nearest point is gedou) from law, she has to wait minimal 17 days and pays 840k makka…..

  • atreides6874 says:

    Hmm, very helpful. I was generally wondering what to put into my gear after I had finished doing flamies tarots. I have been delaying doing Mithra for a few weeks, but I’ll guess I do that next week. Not much to do at 86 over here on the US servers. However, we are suppose to get some kind of major update in 2-4 weeks.

    • 守護霊母Finella says:

      >>major update

      What? I won’t really call an expert skill revamp and pvp which depends on how much money you’re willing to dump in to be “major”.

      The only reason I’m still playing is because:
      1) I’m insane
      2) Figuring out the mathematical aspect of Imagine is fun in a twisted way.

      Still pretty much only dungeon grinds here too.

      8 months in Ichigaya Gold and counting. ^_^

      • atreides6874 says:

        Well, I guess not really major update or so. However, the AP items on the US server is nothing like the CP items yet. I don’t mind doing Ichigaya Gold over and over again, at least I can level low level demons to sell for crystals.

        • Anna says:

          for me, this game got to the point of “I want this gear, I want that gear, ooohh, cool hat with nice damage bonus, I want that too” without actually having any desire to grind/play dungeons…

          And fifi, JP version has more content than US version okay?
          *runs away before Finella kills me with her interweb tube ninjas

  • Confused Guy says:

    Is it my imagination, or is Chaos the way to go for pretty much everything crystal-wise from this analysis?

    Frankly the only thing Law has going for it is Mithra’s crystal it looks, for the physical void.

    I mean, King Frost and Oukuninushi are good for ‘everything’, which is sort of ridiculously unbalanced in my book. It seems many good Chaos crystal effects come into play only if you’re Chaos.

    Meanwhile, if you take a look at, say, Hresvelgr, you’re not exactly screwed over if you try to use it while Chaos, since all of its useful effects come about regardless of LNC.

    All Law gets that is worth talking about with good Law-only effects are Mithra and Pazuzu.

    Am I wrong? It seems that Chaos got almost all of the good crystals because of the strange “+ stat to party” Chaos-only ones.

    • 守護霊母Finella says:

      Pretty much. This also means that a support base character is better off being chaos too.

      Law and to a certain extend neutral bonuses are quite situational, which is why I’m laughing at neoX fairly retarded remarks.

      Imagine, where not only is CP/Non-CP equipments badly balanced, LNC and even gender aren’t balanced properly either.

      • Confused Guy says:

        What I find out about that is, isn’t Chaos supposed to be the ‘every man for himself’ philosophy? Most strange that it gets the party bonuses.

        Well, to be fair LNC hasn’t been balanced particularly well in the main SMT games these days either. It’s worth noting that in two SMT storylines (SMT3 and NINE), the Chaos ending is somehow better than the best Neutral ending.

        Gender? What’s wrong with gender?

        • Confused Guy says:

          Er, *find out = find odd*

        • Anna says:

          “Gender? What’s wrong with gender?”

          Clicky
          http://www.megatenonline.com/campaign/card090326.html

          The lottery have the male only gears that adds ++ this and ++ that everything. See the white one? +25% all type of damage, +70% skill and xp up, uh +10 on magic speed and str. Female gears dont have that kind of gear, yet.

          “IMAGINE and CP item is balanced” said MTroll. ^-^

          • Confused Guy says:

            ..What the HELL? Are those bonuses time-limited, because if not that is absolutely ludicrous!

            • 守護霊母Finella says:

              They aren’t; which is why I’ve been “complaining” that CP items are getting severely out of hand lately. Males have a few parts that are better than females from the lottery, which throws balance off-balance once again. o/

              On the topic of ridiculous, see the lottery from a week before that. Tops that essentially add 20% damage alone. Combine with parts from the other lottery Anna linked to = ?!??!.

              • Anna says:

                “Combine with parts from the other lottery Anna linked to” = +32% moar damage if you wear the wazou for top + and if with strong-willed necklace then +37% moar damge ^-^
                which is like maybe 1 hit gandhahaven with 50% enhance?

                you also will get +10 to c.range and magic value which is equal to +20 each of respective stats (+elf/fomoria on 10 slots).

                Next week lottery maybe female will have +30% damage bra?

  • Pearz says:

    Yukunshi for gloves for melees too. Extra 20 crit if your chaos.

    More reason to be choas as melee

    • 守護霊母Finella says:

      Ogre(4 str), Gorgon(void stone) and Capricorn(+20% slashing) are all better suited for gloves than Yakshini since the +crit is a flat value, rather than an absolute percentage. Which is why I didn’t bother to include it on my list.

      • Pearz says:

        The slash zodiac i wouldn’t argue as it depends on what type of blades you use( tho personal i find slash worthless atm)

        But Yakunshi you get a base + 1 str to your whole team anyways.
        So your trading 3 str for 20 crit, and since i solomainly the team boast part matters little.

        so the trade off is 1.5 CLR compared to 20 crit. I would think choice is obvious on which is better. And from pick of your gear Aegis later gets its soul stone slot, so better to use that for the null stone and not waste a slot for nul stone.

        • 守護霊母Finella says:

          Slash and to a certain extend blunt/pierce’s beauty is that while little things are weak to it, not much things reflect/void/resist it either.

          A 5 slot fully modified answerer will have +60% slashing boast and with enhance/fragrance/etc… A melee can clear the 4 element + power room with just the class 4 spin. Capricorn helps in this kind of situation.

          Again, 20 crit != 20% more crit. Crit works off a flat value, and the difference between your crit chance vs mob’s crit prevention chance is how your actual crit chance is calculated.

          Mobs crit prevention chance are generally raised after the stat patch and as a whole, gearing for crit is not really that effective unless you dump in points into luck.

          tl;dr: Vs a level 70 or so mob, assuming 20 luck, it takes about ~40-60 crit rating for a 1-2% additional chance of getting a critical attack.

          While Aegis is one of the better glove for mages due to naga (5% rush, glove), there are quite a bunch of other CP gloves for melee that are better.

          e.g. powered glove adds 4% magic/melee/gun damage, enchant it with gorgon and it’s void stone/4% damage total.

          Aegis + ogre is only void stone/4 str, quite a bit less damage than a straight 4% damage increase.

          BTW, I hope you’ve fun arguing with our resident village idiot, arcnet/Michael, a level 4x who thinks anyone higher than him is “useless” and not playing the game correctly.

          • Anna says:

            BTW, I hope you’ve fun arguing with our resident village idiot, arcnet/Michael, a level 4x who thinks anyone higher than him is “useless” and not playing the game correctly.

            finちゃん、ネット、いえ、マイケルいをじめるは楽しいよ (^-^v

          • Pearz says:

            okay I guess 1 thing is were basing it on differnt servers. ATM no CP gloves like those exist. And I already knew 20 crit =/= 20% crit or i woulda cleared 100% crit a long time ago. And there never be a thought about ogre.

            Some things Bisho stones are non existant, so a full set of tarots for those is can’t exist atm. What Im using already is a full set of kali (2str, 10 crit per stone)tarots with around 50i sh luck atm, since IMO only stat that could techncailly raise your damage and hopefully ive me better drops.

            So the way i saw it was to stack on crit as its not raw % but from what i was told the highe rthe + crit goes the more each + increase your crit %. even my weakiest blade im at 120 CLR unbuffed, 1.5 clr difference from Ogre would be 1.2% increase in damage where as raising 20 crit i assume increases it more, though i cant be sure as i don’t know exact crit formula.

            SO long story short, I beleive as your crit stacks higher you gain more per + crit. And that +20 crit still seems better the 1.5 clr difference.

            And i ignore slash and go with Charge for my 3 basics as the only type i keep since at least hecate/ sucubus is weak to it so it has some merit compared to slash with zero weakness in higher tier stuff. And an Answerer doesn’t exist on our server yet let alone a 5 slot one. Maybe i’ll change my view on slash when that shows up.

            And i think you mean class 5 spin? for clearing the room unless some other spin is added…. not like i would ever touch sugi gold anymore…..

            And I have that slight glimmer of hope maybe 1 day they will see the light with arguement. Though i admit i have more fun argueing with them <.< Nothing like E-drama to spice life?

            • Anna says:

              dear bewildered Pearz, 5s Answerer actually is so like 2008 >.>

              Before the new melee chain expert, Answerer is basically like holy grail to all melee. But AFTER the new chain melee waas out, it’s usefulness is starting to fade as chain melee 3-0 has a toggle that lets you do 30% more spin damage with spears. Now people are more inclined to use crafted 5s Karadoborg with max mod on pierce damage, this also makes taurus a good choice for soul fusion.
              Aside from karadoborg, people also use the Big Mangas spears or the Castle Destroyer Serpent Spear (崩城蛇矛). in short…+60% piercing boost and +30% from chain 3-0 toggle + 20% from taurus while melee chain 6-0 is activated = ???? 100% more ish from skill alone.
              compare this to 2h sword like answerer, rei, etc which only give damage boost to rushes but not spin…

              • Pearz says:

                Either way we dont have anyone on our server that can even make an answerer yet. Nor do we have Regal. All we have is a broken Tanki stone will null knockback without a drawback yet.

                Though not many mobs you fight wont have any weakness, and generally fire does the trick when mob has no weakness.Or maybe I ichi gold to much. Guess atm don’t see a mob i need a slash type weapon for. I only carry charge for hecate/sucubus and random mobs that might need it. WIthout weakness I don’t see a point on carrying another weapon. Also the more I read about Regal, the more broken it seems….

                • 守護霊母Finella says:

                  Takou (+15% slash, +15% rush damage, +10% damage to skills that depend on a weapon for damage type), the green relic version of the chainsaw sword from suginami silver is situationally the best weapon against gandharvas if you’ve 7-0 rush/regal 5-0.

                  40% base damage + 30% mod => 70% Total damage.

                  Add 20% from Capricorn and 30% from regal 5-0, and a melee have a high chance of 1 hitting gandharvas with the sword since 7-0 rush has the same modifier as the Delorean used by mages.

                  Fire boasts, even with kero/orthos don’t add up to a number higher than this.

                  Again, everything depends on situation; don’t dismiss off slashing because it seems to be generally useless.

                  • Pearz says:

                    hmmmm that steel slicer does seem good. time to go buy that out just for gandharva. Can fuse a Gyuuki for 20% more to fairies just to kill those faster <.<

              • Strenger X says:

                Good Luck ever seeing a Caladbolg on the US Server…

                • 守護霊母Finella says:

                  But crafting is easy says our village idiot!

                  • Stranger X says:

                    It’s not excruciatingly hard…it’s just few will do it with the time requirements.

                    Besides, do Class 7 Clovers even exist? O_o

                    • 守護霊母Finella says:

                      Nope, so only dwarf/1.5x clover are usable with it.

                      1.12% chance to craft one without any clover, 1.68% with 1.5, 13.44% with dwarf.

                      Have fun calculating the chances to get a 5 slot one…

            • 守護霊母Finella says:

              Again, crit is linear in nature while p.attack is exponential. “I beleive as your crit stacks higher you gain more per + crit.” isn’t true because it’s a linear gain.

              20 crit might seems like a huge number but at the end of the day, it has little actual effect. The more luck you have, the less worth it has since it’s a linear gain on top of your luck/base crit.

              10-20 luck with 9-0 weapon knowledge’s passive (+20), 1-0 regal presence’s toggle (+20) and 1-0 attack’s toggle (+300) is pretty much sufficient for maximum crit chance.

              And yeah, I mean Class 5. Class 7 alone is also possible to achieve 1 hit AE kill for Power + Elements.

  • Rikku says:

    Question, can Class 3-0 Regal Presence be used together with DD Rushes?

    • 守護霊母Finella says:

      As mentioned before, yes.

      However it only works with daggers and not ceremonial daggers.

      i.e. It will work with attack knives but not kris naga.

  • Honorio79 says:

    Heya finella! I was directed here by a guy that’s also a fellow blogger who’s blogging the Aeria version. Seems like he trusts your insights on Megaten in general. Are we NA players going to face the same imbalance issues as the JP players?

    • 守護霊母Finella says:

      8-ball says yes.

      I seriously doubt Aeria has any capabilities of changing anything significant in the game and stuff are already following the JP version.

      e.g. Dubthach and other powerful CP/AP only items are coming in, updates being mainly fortune card based etc…

  • Honorio79 says:

    Ahhh. Thanks for the quick reply. And one more query from a newbie. I’ve read you’ve trained an alt as a synther. I’ve been itching to invest time in one and currently a support-type character since I love playing healer in other games. Is it worth also having and possible to learn Enhancement as a secondary Chain Expertise since I’ve been putting points in INT. Sorry for such questions, the other blogger says it’s possible, but no one in the NA version has any real experience per say on it.

    • 守護霊母Finella says:

      Short/Mid-term, probably. But eventually, like just about every aspect of the game, you want a pure synthesizer or a pure support character.

      15k expert skills points (5-0) is required to unlock 70/80% enhance, which leave fairly little points for other things, and synthesizing success rate goes up~ 1% every 2 rank.

      You can go with 2-0 enhance (50%) up to a certain level (81/90 are popular choices), before you rete off enhance and concentrate on synthesizing I guess.

  • Honorio79 says:

    Wow that is a lot to invest in. But I guess it’ll be worth it in the end, especially when PvP and future CP/AP content is enabled, so my clan can have some slight advantage when my Synthing is needed. I’m very happy to receive receptive and constructive advice. Again much thanks to you and that blogger that guided me here.

  • Xiyon says:

    hiya! what equips are needed to help synthesists? i’m working on a full kaiwan tarot and my 1st fodder’s gonna work on rafael soul stone (supposedly adds 2 luck to the party. .i’m not really sure> <).

    • 守護霊母Finella says:

      Raphael’s crystal only has an effect fairly recently on the JP server. Leave that for last.

      For a support int/luck character, full Kyun/Kaiwan tarot and Ookuninushi will be needed.

      For the synthesis character itself, full Kirin/Omoikane for tarot.

      For soul:

      Omoikane for head/face
      Kaichi for neck
      Kyun/Kaiwan for top
      Paravasti/Kokumonten for leg
      Hresvelgr for back
      Kikurihime for ear, ring and extra
      High Pixie for shoes

      Weapon/Glove/Talisman don’t really have any useful int/luck enchants yet.

      • Xiyon says:

        ah…so i’ll only be able to boost soul fusion by 1% :(

        better than nothing, i guess ^ ^; thanks!

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