“Ultimate” Gunner Builds
Because the build that our dear Kaito “sama” have is far from decent and the logs given by Dawn are very interesting.
Anna, I expect you to help me to fish for this troll!
Pre-patch, the goal of everyone is to get as many chains as possible, since they don’t require anything, other than expert skill investments to work.
Disclaimer: I don’t play a gunner, and I’ve close to zero experience with them, other than logging in Anna’s gunner for a few random test after the expert skill changes. I might very well be talking out of my arse on a few things since this post is based solely on client data and other information that are floating around. But hey, it’s definitely more accurate than Kaito’s view on melee builds!
Some crucial facts:
1) Pre-damage boosts, raising an expert skill by 2 ranks only increase the damage you do by a static ONE damage, assuming a mob with 100% resistance.
2) Pre-damage boosts, raising a chain expert skill by 1 ranks only increase the damage you do by ONE damage, assuming a mob with 100% resistance.
3) With my current gear, I’ve around a 15x damage boost modifier (pretty much the highest possible with the current gear on the JP server), which means that for me, raising 2 rank in an expert skill or 1 in a chain raise my damage by only 15 damage, a relatively insignificant amount.
4) Even with a full class difference for a chain expert, the difference is only 150 damage, but you lose a huge amount of expert skill points that can go into other skills.
e.g. 4-0 Demolition Dash = 11k points min, 5-0 Demolition Dash = 14350, a difference of 3350 points.
5) Clock off, the 4-0 enhance spell reduces CAST TIME, not cool down. Don’t be idiotic like Kaito. It’s a close to useless spell other than making traesto instant.
Pre-Patch
Bless – 1000
Gun Knowledge – 9000 (7900)
Curse – 2000
Demonology – 2000 (2300)
Shoot – 5000
Support – 3000 (2800)
Destruct – 1000
Control Magic – 1000
Heal – 2000
Total points: 26000 (25000)
Resulting Chain Experts: 5-5 Magic Bullet, 4-6 Sharp Shoot, 1-5 Curse of the Wrench, 2-0 Enhance.
Stopping sharpshoot at 4-5 since the other toggles are pretty useless. You get a limited AE disabling attack (erosion hex) and 2 buffs from Enhance. (+50% damage/-50% damage taken)
Much better than Kaito’s build, no? The values in the brackets are what you can take to make the build doable at 80. Drop destructive magic to free another 1k point and you get the same build, minus curse of the wrench at 70.
Going class 4-0 control magic is dot dot dot worthy.
This build is also somewhat viable post patch, if you maintain 100 int. By the way, it’s pretty dumb for a gunner to max int just for cast speed post patch, since you’re limited by 2 things: attack animation and cooldown.
No matter how low you bring your cast speed, there’s always the attack animation which is triggered AFTER you fire off your skill, and that cannot be eliminated no matter what you do.
Basic attack for melee have 0 cast time, and yet, do you see them instantly killing Jikokuten or other mobs that are hard to knockback?
Here are some random maths:
Assuming 150 speed (viable with Hresvelgr etc…):
Base cast speed for range shot: 1.25s
150 speed: 22.5% reduction
7-0 gun knowledge: 20% reduction
Final reduction: 45.5%
Modified cast time: 0.71s
Assuming a further 100 int: 25% cast time.
Modified cast time with int: 0.4.
While a reduction from 0.7 -> 0.4 seems a lot, do remember that human reaction is ~0.1s-0.2s. Not to mention an average GOOD connection to a server has around 100-200ms lag, which is another 0-1s-0.2s difference.
Taking consideration into these + casting animation (another 0.3-0.5s delay, this figure is pull out from my arse since I’m lazy to test for the actual timing), the actual difference of 0.4s don’t really factor much in the grand scheme of everything.
Not to mention that you’re doing something awfully wrong if something isn’t dead by 3-4 shots, as fairly little things, other than bosses have more than 10k of hp, and due to lag yada yada, you lose time when you switch mobs.
0.7 cast time
1 attack cycle:
charge shot – 0.7 (cast speed) + 0.1 (reaction) + 0.1 (lag)
target mob – 0.1 (reaction) + 0.1 (lag)
Shot fired – 0.3 (animation)
Total: 1.4s
1min cycle: 42.85 attacks
0.4 cast time
1 attack cycle:
charge shot – 0.4 (cast speed) + 0.1 (reaction) + 0.1 (lag)
target mob – 0.1 (reaction) + 0.1 (lag)
Shot fired – 0.3 (animation)
Total: 1.1s
1min cycle: 54.54 attacks
54.54-42.85/100 = 11.69%
A 25% cast time reduction brings about an actual 11.69% increase in the simulated number of attacks, which is done based on the assumption that you have a near flawless reaction speed, internet connection and very minimal casting animation. The increase will be smaller, the worse reaction/etc you have.
Sadly pumping magic isn’t that beneficial for gunners either as unlike mages who can attack solely with demolition dash, gunners can’t attack with just the bullet holes skills.
A typical rotation is something like: snipe -> fire bullet -> shot -> snipe…
With sufficient speed/cooldown reduction: snipe -> fire bullet -> snipe -> fire bullet….
Out of the attacks, only the fire bullet is affect by magic which sort of bring magic effective to only 1/3 or 1/2, depending on how much cooldown you have. Additionally, m.attack only contributes half it’s worth to magic bullet, which drops the effective contribute it gives down to 1/6 or 1/4 respectively.
This by the way is one of the issues plaguing gunners right now: They scale fairly badly at the higher levels. Melee scale the best with their toggles and mages scale the best by stats.
Post-Patch
I’m too lazy to list up a proper “build” since ultimately, this is just the start of probably a series of posts to mock Kaito.
The builds for this bit are just random values I throw into a spreadsheet, that result in 26000 points.
Stuff that are useful are:
7-0 rapid – 140 modifier, i.e. does more damage than magic bullet unless you pumped in points into magic. Commonly taken with enhance.
7-0 shot – AE damage, does damage to everything in a line, similar to demolition dash. Unfortunately, it is an AE that do one of the least amount of damage in-game and the range is pretty short. But still, a weak AE is better than no AE.
7-0 magic control – will give you 4 toggles to reduce the cast speed/increase the damage of your 4 main elemental bullets
In terms of chain expert, curse of the wrench is still worth taking as 2 of the requirements are already met by going magic bullet, and it doesn’t really depend on any stat to work.
With mothman enchanted, which any sane gunner would have, a 50% base chance to hit everything with amnesia is pretty useful.
Enhance is worth taking if you go the int path, but ultimately a dedicated enhancer will be wanted since you don’t really have the ability to have 5-0 enhance and 140/160 int. Aim for only 100 int, class 2 enhance if you wish to do it.
Do note that the enhance stone sold at the magic store only last 15secs, i.e. half the usual enhance duration, and they only +30% damage/-30% damage taken.
Enhance with 0 int will still give you a 30% pulse. Every 2 int above 60 will add 1% to this base, up till the class cap.
A random class 7 shot/class 7 rapid/2-0 enhance/3-3 magic bullet/3-2 sharpshoot/1-5 curse will be something like this:
Bless – 1000
Gun knowledge – 2000
Curse – 2000
Rapid – 7000
Shot – 7000
Heal – 2000
Support – 3000
Destruct – 1000
Control Magic – 1000
Speed + int (up to 100) needed, mainly to power enhance. This is useless with a dedicated enhancer though.
Lacks 7-0 gun knowledge (no -20% range shot cast time), 5-0 magic bullet and the higher sharpshoot (not really an issue).
Main form of attack will probably be snipe -> range shot or rapid/spiral shot.
Bless – 1000
Gun Knowledge – 6000
Curse – 2000
Demonlogy – 2000
Shoot – 7000
Destruct – 1000
Control Magic – 7000
Quite a bit of customization for this.
Note that while 7-0 control magic reduce your cast time, it doesn’t reduce your cooldown, so your shot rotation might end up something like snipe -> fire bullet -> shot -> shot -> snipe
Can drop destruct to boost gun knowledge to class 7 for the -20 range shot cast time passive, but you lose curse of the wrench.
Can drop shoot to class 6 to boost gun knowledge, but you lose spiral shot.
Can drop destruct and reduce gun knowledge to class 2 to pick up enhance.
Can drop demonlogy and destruct to pick up enhance, but you lose sharpshoot and curse of the wrench.
Whether to dump points into int or magic depends on what you ultimately end up with.
Ever since Michael stopped making dumb posts, we’ve been looking for another replacement for him. Feel free to cast additional nominations as I doubt our great Kaito-sama here will entertain us long enough. :/
Final word:
Dear Kaito, your build IS terribad for having a random control magic 4-0 in it, and planning for int solely for cast speed reduction IS horribad.
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Hahaha, you missed the part where hes in shoutbox maybe, 14 out like 24 hours in a day where he complains taht megaten is a waste of time, but trolling shoutbox all day isn’t….
That and he beleives he knows every detail about the game, like say, I should use 8 5lost answerers cause its the best weapon in game for melee. And even the AP weapons (elemental ones) don’t compare.
O ya and I should use a Macha crystal for all my weapons cuz its the best stone to exist for weapons ever………..
Links/logs whatever or it didn’t happen!
I don’t really visit Aeria much, out of checking it when posts links to stuff here or people point out specific stuff to me.
Do share with us more of his brilliance!
O_o Gah, I can’t believe someone recorded that entire Shoutbox conversation -_-
(Dear good Aeria players/readers {yes, I’m looking at you}, feel free to make a copy pasta of this post in Aeria forum, help us in fishing Kaito sama)
Dear Finella and Stranger X, why not? Kaito-sama is so brilliant and more productive than Fifi here (even michael wasnt this modest by using “sama”)! they seems to have the same brain capacity tho (like, N O N E).
Obviously every melee in JP server didnt use spin to kill things, instead they use 2 types of counters.
Why didnt I think of that?? Gandhaven bufudyne you? Use counter! Nightmare Ooze maryoku spin you? Use counter! Jyuunen ni yourisou Dis multi-Agidyne you? Use counter. Jikokuten Mahanma you? Counter! Unknockables nightmares aggro you? Counter!
See? counter is best no? it’s damage type is even almighty. Obviously best choice for every class v ^-^)9
You see, people. Mages just need to get counter to 10 and they are set for any dungeon. Maharagion who? Delorean what? Megidola HA!
Question from noobie Anna to Kaito-”sama” :
Can I use counter to kill the Elementals in the sugi gold boss room? I mean they just spinning around and my counters keep breaking, sometimes they even burn/freeze/blow/electrocute me and i became a corpse. What’s happening, did I do things wrong? Counters should be like almighty right? 2 counters should take care of everything right? Need your advice (T-T
Warm Regards
Forever noob, Anna
ROFL, this guy is always posting in the gunners threads and everyone follow his “awesome” advices.That’s why we have a lot of useless gunners in the server.And his gunner fetich is kinda weird ~_~
You guys need to publicly humiliate him for the sake of gunners to come!
Postings:
I tried logic, shame on me. I tried database data, shame on me again.
SB:
I went on SB and talked to Kaito long enough to make him ask me questions. (Miracles do happen…) Which lasted for maybe 5 minutish. After I left though dot dot dot. (once) No, no screen shots, just a faint remembrance that it happened, probably, possibly, maybe, maybe not…
I am against public humiliation, but seriously, what a orz like situation. *face palms*
PS for Finella/Anna: Magic Control time reduction per class: Mystery of the universe? Any chance of enlightening this failure of a google-fu practitioner? I tried, and every time I answer “how much does magic control reduces cast time” I had to do “no one really knows, I just go by the rule of 100ms per class.” ><
Cast time reduction is around 1%/class back when the 2ch mage thread did testings on it
i.e. traesto went from 900s -> 855s at class 5 control magic.
MP reduction is also around 1%/class.
The reduction rate for both is fairly abyssal, which is why they added the new toggles/passives to control magic to balance it.
People who actually “feel” a significant cast time reduction for most skill before class 4/5 should apply to become an Olympic athlete as their reaction time/eye sight are obviously way above human.
Hmm, been a reader for a while, and realize this is mostly a Kaito bash thread, but had a question on your second build actually (Shocking huh?) The main thing I was wondering about was why the class in Bless? I assume it is strictly for the +5MP, but wouldn’t having a Harpy sister set make up for this, or am I missing something else here?
It’s more for curse of the wrench than anything.
As long as you go magic bullet, you’ll need to get curse magic and control magic, fulfilling two of the four prerequisites needed for curse of the wrench.
A further 2k points investment in bless/destruct grants you erosion hex which is useful in pretty much all of the gold dungeons, especially Ichigaya Gold.
I expect people to go “hurr durr, aggro!!!!11one!!!!” but nothing in the Ichigaya Gold boss room, less the 4 guardians have a normal attack skill, which means they do nothing if erosion hex lands.
Since most gunners would have mothman enchanted for amnesia shot anyway, they have a 50% base chance of landing it, which makes erosion hex a useful tool.
I don’t know how Ichigaya gold is done on Aeria, but on the JP server, if we’re using move rate increasing consumables, we’ll assign a melee/gunner for Jikokuten prior to the run.
Moment we enter boss room, we rush into the center of the room. The melee/gunner goes off to engage Jikokuten while the rest erosion hex while AEing the place.
Even melee, post enhancement nerf/pre regal use erosion hex too. Some melee still use it now, if they are willing to give up 8-0 attack/7-0 spin.
Ultimately, it’s just down to preference.
Video illustrating what I mean
Hmm… interesting. I never personally thought of actually throwing CotW on my gunner actually. I was gonna do enhancement but when Aeria announced the patch that got scrapped. I did find CotW + mothman useful on my Enhancer in Sugi gold, may have to try it on my gunner.
Thank you for clearing that up. At least the new switches makes up for it.
Random Comment:
Sigh, Traesto, 15 minute of the poor tester’s life wasted timing it. Corrections, 14 minute and 55 seconds.
Since its easier for Finella to click ok then to type the answer –
To Tanarin:
The Curse of the Wretched needs bless as part of its requirement.
Curse Magic Class 2
Bless Class 1
Magic Control Class 1
To answer the next possible question, forgetful shot is single target, erosion hex is aoe. In many cases, this being one of them, AOE > single target. Especially since Erosion Hex’s aoe is center to outward and has a huge coverage.
It’s 14mins, 15s to be exact. (60s in a min :P)
>>Since its easier for Finella to click ok then to type the answer –
Wats!?
Bah, note to self, refresh before posting a comment, sorry.
It’s 14mins, 25s to be exact. => Indeed, *face desks* well, this is one person is totally failing grade 1 math. xD
Wats!? => But, logic states… ah, didn’t realize approval isn’t needed after a commenter has been registered.
As for how Ichigaya Gold is done in Aeria.
A) Badly
B) Lure Jiko with a gunner/demon, kill Jiko, traesto out of the room (Consider we can’t 1hko harvas without incense yet, this is actually good exp gain/hour) This is what 90% of the parties that run ichigaya gold do.
C) Solid before boss, two people run in the middle of the crowd, 2x CoTW, and then 1 person spam cotw/bat/solid, rest dps on boss. This works 98% of the time, due to not having Thoth implemented. Muddle/Sleep on both of the CoTWer makes me want to cry inside. (Sigh at Lilim versus Mothman)
Needless to say, 1 of those party is mine. With this post though, more people are going to run it JP way. We can only hope. (Got mixed feeling about it, party mates are going to kill me.)
Ah, as for our current tier 1 (best in server) damage, Melee are up to 1kish damage per swipe Mage are at 3kish per delorean rush. [On battery/No incense] So the boss does go down in a single pulse. \o/
btw Dra31Xus…about your last post on DD build topic…
http://forums.aeriagames.com/viewtopic.php?t=389488&sid=f2ad10f1ad556bdec4e5980a644974b6#3084516
well, there’s this another argument that junma (shot/enhancement mage) doesnt use DD tho… Remember sugi gold mobs? cast spell = aggro, most junma use kamaitachi in mixed mob room in sugi gold. but obviously those junma in jp server doing things wrong in sugi gold right? They all go for Mithra for head too, and commonly thoth is for those dedicated enhancer. And Dest magic 10 is not like what people think.
megidola cooldown 2 mins, megidolaon 3 mins, maha-dyne cooldowns are horrible as well. combine the facts that they aggro mobs, most sane junma wont ever use maha-dyne spell in sugi gold mixed mob room. And dont forget that parvati = no cooldown reduction. you’ve 90 seconds in between solid/barrier v(^^
another problem is most junma wont have enough skill points, Dest Magic after 5-0 is high cooldown and inefficient, so they opt for rushes. not too mention they will want to have CoTW too for erosion, also they need the 15k enhancement 5-0. DD junma didnt have delorean due to the points limitations >.>
However, Chiaki’s clothes have this skill (called gourei) that multiply skill’s execution to 3 times. Imagine Destmagic 10-0 junma in boss room with that outfit… 3 constant maharagidyne then 3 constant megidolaon. then 3 constant megidola, then 3 constant maharagion, not too mention if you have phlogiston then x3 agilao/agi (x6 with accel, can it go x18 with gourei? i wonder). but you still have to buff your pt, cast CotW and eat candies in between.
Thank you for the thoughtful input Anna. I agree, those Class 5 shield are going to be one hell of a BS. And I agree entirely too much that shot mage is semi-useless suginami gold compared to DD mage. (Em, now that I think about it. Anna just convinced me that they should NEVER go to sugi gold.)
In my case though, I based my opinion based on the following reasons. See if they make any sense.
Pre-Patch:
Ignoring Sugi gold for the moment since Ichi gold is more exp-efficient. Mage with 1hko AOE shots are in fact semi-faster than DD rush mage in terms of room clear time. Due to Fire being the only affinity needed really for gold, and that Shot Maragion/Maragi loads faster than Delorean and covers a larger area. (Did some testing before. When I on magic incense, maragi/maragion 1hkos everything. So I run toward the middle of the room, cast 2x, usually clears 90% of the room in a hurry. 2 Delorean only clears about 60% of the room on average, and takes longer to load)
For boss room, if you do it the JP way with cotw spam, can cast shots without worries. (Dangerous with lure tactics. Making this situational) With Acc. You are pumping out a higher damage per second than Delorean pre-patch.
Example: I run with about 110 spell? With full flamies set/fire boost equips. Due to laziness, I cycled agilao/maragion/maragi without acc for total of 2k+2k+1.4k = ~ 5k damage in 4ish seconds. With acc, that’s about 2kx2+2k+1.4kx2 = ~ 8k in about 5ish seconds. (Figure is with bat/incense) Needless to say, I sometimes draw aggro, and gotta break off and run away. But usually get 3 or 4 shots off no problem. (Thank heaven no knock back stun on character when nuking Jiko) DD rushing pre-patch doesn’t produce as much damage. I do about 3.5k per 3 seconds for DD rush on bat/incense. (Noticed I didn’t include cool down. After 8kish damage by me alone, the boss is usually dead)
OTOH
Anna got me thinking about post patch DD rush. You can cut down the cast time to about 1.8ish seconds, with about 15% damage boost from a weapon, pumping some strength would boost it to 25~40%. Maragidyne, agidyne included would give you chain of maragidyne/agidyne/agilaox2/maragilao in terms of raw damage. It would take 7 secondish to cast all that. 2.3 seconds per dd rush after including animation. Say about 3 rushes? What’s your thought on this Anna?
I can’t test it due to the lack of patches. But shot mage according to the above reasons seems to be fairly attractive in ichi gold exp runs. Especially considering Avalon is $50 USD to EN server => getting a godly shot weapon is a LOT easier than acquiring fire spear (spear of duftach)
Buffing party/cast cotw are indeed a problem, that’s why the chains I suggested doesn’t include megido- and is short in terms of execution time. MP with a 150ish MP bank is no problem with the new MC switches imo.
Random Comment:
Chiaki’s cloth gets my vote as #1 broken item period in MegaTen! Candle of Fire (phlogiston) doesn’t compare! But Phlogiston would lean things toward shot mage by a lot. 6 Agiolaos…
Chiaki’s cloth works on DD rush? 3 delorean in 4ish seconds is omg broken.
Maharagion all the way then delorean all the way in boss room. DD have this disadvantage if used on normal mobs:
1. speed bell effect is gone if a skill is activated
2. counter (if mob have 2 counter, they’ll kill us all said kaito sama)
In boss room for shot magics. one word. Dodge.
chain of maharagidynanana and megidolalala is only makes sense if you cast it before CoTW and if the enemies didnt notice you yet, otherwise, it’ll be dodge dodge dodge.
Chiaki’s Gourei works on everything: items, CoTW, delorean, Gaia’s Rage, mahadyne, and COUNTER. (2 counters = 6 counters definitely super killers said kaito sama)
yes, gourei and delorean on 1h gandha mage is very popular. people cleaned boss room with that in less than 15-20 secs. but gourei have long cooldown and is only useable per run, so definitely only boss room usage.
And no, barrier/shield is sort of useful too in ichi gold for small sized parties. it nulls gandha’s curse, buy you some leeway when you’re loved by Jiko (like me), and nulls his mahanma which once critical all of us and wiped us out.
Currently this is the kind of damage that I’m doing against gandahava, without fragrance:
Agidyne: 3.2k – 4.0k
Delorean: 4.5k – 5.6k
Megidola: 3.1k – 3.8k
Megidolaon: 4.3k – 5.3k
Gandahava has a bit over 4.2k hp, which means fragrances are needed for agidyne/megidola to 1 hit them. Have to take into account damage reduction due to splash radius yada yada as well.
The problem with going pure destructive magic is that gandahava dodge A LOT, especially after they get fogged, since their AI only have 1 skill left to activate once they get fogged.
Getting dodge 3-4 times in a row is a pretty common occurrence…
A decent rush/fire weap isn’t really that hard to get once more lottery and/or weapon smiths are around, not to mention Phlegethon, which can be produced from synthesis (only 1 flamis + 1 sublimation crystal needed.)
Phlegethon is a +20% fire lance that has more p.attack/m.attack than Duftach. Drawback is Duftach = 320 makka base to repair, while Phlegethon’s is 2800 base and that it can only be equipped by player 81 and above.
*brain clicks*
For Anna:
I see how you were wincing so much on shot mages now. Mainly because we were working under different presumptions.
I assumed that EN server will continue with kill boss only, instead of switching to full room clears for a while yet. (That was why the chain was pretty heavy on single target skills.) But now I realized that if expertise release ever happened, full room clear would be a hell lot easier.
(Grandharva… the last time my party full room cleared, it was during the end of a 2.5 hours non stop grind. Pure melee traestoed out by accident. Leaving a pure enhancer, enhance/melee, low lv mage, and me behind. My spear broke and I ended up deloreaning with bare hands. “Spare weapons? What spare weapons… 40 dura was suppose to last…” It took 3 minutes to clear the boss room after Jiko died.)
Definitely worth thinking about. Enough to change my opinion on Shot/Enhancer until I figure out whether EN server will go full clear or stick to boss only after DM10 is released. *Heads off to change comment*
Random Question: How are Junma in pvp? I have a horrible assumption that shot spells are easier to land with than DD rushes without Regal.
For Finella:
Sublimation Crystal is a sore subject with me and the rest of high-level EN server. We have so many reliced soul fused weapons lying around that it makes me want to cry inside. In fact I want to strangle the person that made the Patch Note.
Junma fare well in Versus here. There’s this famous junma player named Natalie Fran which is on the top of the list, she has enhance, divine spells, mahabufula, coTW?, freezing lance as main way of offence or so I heard (yes 2nd hand info, need to clarify this first). But why ice attacks? you see, since people use neck to null charm (from gunner’s charm shot) and talismans to null fog (from CoTW on high places), most people use ice as the main element which got 50% boost.
Natalie isn’t pure destruct, she runs enhance/curse/dd for PVP with that +bufu stack dagger.
Pure destruct/enhance was back when she was doing it for PVE.
Very few mages in PVP runs pure destruct. Most are enhance/curse/dd or curse/dd/regal.
Curse is pretty much needed since the 3-0 hex is the only way to nullify the damage reduction from regal 4-0.
*nods and takes down notes* Sorry, I am a horrible addict of PvP. This type of info is like water for a person dying of thirst.
Random Note:
But why ice attacks? => Finella is guilty of informing 90% of the people I know/EN server that Ice will be the primary pvp affinity and has already convinced everyone that matters to switch to ice/build ice set for pvp.
From this chain of thought, I can form the conclusion that there’s no reason to not get DD since its only 1 class in rush after the patch release.
Shot is situationally useful in pve rooms clears and pvp. The right way to go about it is to simply get cotw/DD/enhancement together. But will be tight in expertise. *thinks*
Finella and Anna, what do you think of:
Class 1 Rush
Class 7 Destruction Magic
Class 7 Magic Control
Class 2 Curse Magic
Class 2 Bless
Class 2 Curative
Class 2 Supportive
That’s 23k Expertise, ie, possible at lv60. Giving Class 5.2 DD, Class 3.5 CoTW, Class 2 Enhancement, megidola/single dynes.
It also happens to free up 3k expertise at lv90. Which can be used for:
A) Maxxing Destruction Magic.
Class 10 Destruction Magic – AOE Dynes+Megidolaon
B) Maxxing Curse Magic.
Class 5 Curse Magic – Charm Shot with Nekomata, or Sleep Shot. (Which every single person who uses talisman for null fog will be venerable to)
Class 5 CoTW – class 5 Shield break? Nightmare Qilins with class 4-5 continuous attacked? Higher curse success? Never seen those skills in action yet.
Yeah, as I just replied, I never thought of putting CotW on my gunner until now. Gonna have to give it a shot.
The mention of CotW Melee makes me curious, I’ve seen people elaborate on Enhancements boosts in respect to Int. But I’m wondering how does Int work with CoTW, does it effect the success rate of it hitting or time the effects last?
I’m curious since I’ve been toying with the idea of a Curse/Enhancement Melee since I like the idea of Class 2/5 enhancement. At times it feels like a Erosion Hex AoE after a Spin would be really nice to keep things under control.
Int is suppose to raise the “damage” and chance to land the status effect. How much effect does each int give for curse of the wrench, is unknown though.
Putting this aside, mothman adds 50% to your base chance to cause amnesia. Even if your base chance to land amnesia via erosion hex is 0, 0+50 is still 50% chance to land it.
Typically anything that doesn’t outright void it, will get hit by amnesia after 2-3 casts, even if you’ve 0 int.
Dear curious Haro, so far for Kinju/CoTW, int (補助/support to be exact) only affects it’s damage, so in other words int doesnt affect Kinju ailments hit rate whatsoever.
So how big the success rate is for Kinju? Nobody knows yet (yes, fifi i’m looking at you).
My enhancer has 160 int right now, despite having high int and 補助/support value Kinju’s damage is just that insignificant, does not even reaches 100ish >.>
HOWEVER, one thing you need to remember: mothman crystal soul fused on your talisman will increase (only) the amnesia/muddle base hit rate up to 50% (that means like very good chance). Any sane pure enhancer/mage/gunners with Kinju would obviously have mothman. How long does it last? Well, it seems random to me but fifi might have the exact recovery time data.
AND PLEASE, to whoever in aeria forum who said AOE muddle with 50% hit rate is useless, take back your words or we’ll compare you with Kaito sama on your brain capacity.
About the idea on enhance,CoTW/kinju melee.
Pre Regal Presence
good idea for ichi/sugi gold runs, since Erosion Hex is NOT dependant on any stats nor derived stats and Assault is like 50% damage up no matter how low your int are.
(However fitting CoTW, spin, attack, and enhance in 1 build doesnt leave much room on anything else like greetings skill for example).
Post Regal Presence
->not enough skill points
You’ll miss a lot of damage potential without Regal presence >.> class 3-0 toggle adds 30% spear spin damage, class 2-0 toggle adds 40% blunt weap. attack damage, class 6-0 adds 15% melee (CLSR) damage and stackable with aforementioned toggles…
there’s also attack 8-0, spin 7-0 to consider too. So, sacrificing 6-0 Regal is like losing 15% damage(not just damage, melee type damage, highest damage boost type in the game). And your enhance is like useless if you have a dedicated low cooldown enhancer (and most sane enhancer can use coTW). CoTW with Regal however is helpful, if you can fit them in together. Some of melee in JP server also have erosion available, but as lately they rarely use this since they can hit gandharva 3.5k PER normal attack with flamehorn……….(that’s 2h attack gandha bye bye, 3h atk jiko bye bye) YES, they can efficiently AE spin gandharva too.
Side note: obviously melee is weakest class in game? dumb statement is dumb……
I can understand enhancement being useless on the stat side post patch but has anyone kept at all for the 2/5 skill or did they immediately switch to the Regal Prescence version? I was under the impression theres a penalty for the RP one, so in that sense is 2/5 Enhancement still feasible?
Though from the sounds of things, (like the Flamehorn mentioned) to say some of the high level AP gear has destroyed the game balance is a understatement. If you can kill the mobs in one hit I assume it’d kills off any reason for defensive skills of any sort.
Oh and just to be clear, I’m not actually aware of what the 8-0 attack is though I assume 7-0 Spin is a three hit spin?
Regal is pretty front-loaded in terms of effects as most of the better toggles are available at 3-0.
Some melee do 2-5 enhance/3-0 regal and dump points into int to get 100 int to maintain a 50% pulse.
Bless – 1000
Weapon Knowledge – 3000
Heal – 2000
Support – 4000
Attack – 8000
Spin – 7000
Survival – 1000
… will net you class 3-0 regal (+spin damage for lance toggle, + attack damage for blunt toggle) and 2-5 enhance (+50% pulses and no knockback)
This is only really viable for chaos/neutral due to the +15 int from the 4 kings bonus.
Effects of the higher level skills yada yada can be found in the skill sections on this blog.
Basically, the skill, heavy attack from class 8-0 attack does about 20% more damage than your base attack skill and maelstorm (7-0, single spin) is quite an improvement over tail of the dragon (1-0).
Trinity radar, the other 7-0 spin that hits 3x is fairly useless though due to being frontal only, and having a low damage modifier.
Seems I somehow screwed up my Gunner so bad prepatch that he is going to be amazing post-patch…
@Dra31Xus
5-0 enhance isn’t that useful in PVP due to the no reflect rule, which in turn makes 5-0 curse less needed.
Most that take PVP seriously will use Thott in head for void amnesia, and so talisman slot is still free for Lilium, and most will already use angel for their neck to void off charm shots.
10-0 destructive magic might be a bit more useful compare to the others, but it’s more for PVE purposes and sneaking in a megidolaon when your enemy isn’t paying attention.
Ultimately, it’s up to you I guess. I personally feel that dd/curse/regal is better for PVP.
kaito was jus all talk… >.<