Thievery and Chivalry
Congratulations. Some of you people have just proved just how thickheaded you can be.
In case the thread gets “moved” after being locked.
The basis of my previous post is VERY simple.
Data presented here are gotten MAINLY from reverse engineering Imagine’s client. A violation of your precious ToS. This isn’t about who owns what since information is ultimately shared, not owned. I don’t care that you ripped off information from my site. What I care about is WHY was it even done in the first place. WHY didn’t any GS raise any issue about it?
To re-use the silly exam example.
Student A and Student B are having a history exam, but the question asked was on a topic that hasn’t been taught yet.
Student A hid her history textbook under the table and use it to cheat
Student B blindly copy off A’s answer and submit it up.
To add to the above situation, Student B is the class monitor and has always berate others on the vice of cheating.
Who’s wrong? Both A and B, but B should have the foresight on not doing something so hypocritical.
Let me restate this again: So copying information provided by violating the ToS is completely fine and inline? If I gave botting instructions and those that copied over, is this still fine?
Botting is something VERY helpful to people and per half the arguments that got spewed out, it’s completely okay, right?
I won’t be stressing this again and again if it isn’t on Aeria’s wiki. On one hand, you guys preach about just how sinful breaking the ToS is, and on another hand, overlook this as a matter of convenience.
This isn’t about credits or not. It’s about the double standard you people apply on some topics.
Using something a thief stole means you are far from being chivalrous, no matter what excuse you cough out.
Also, I seriously laugh at the “we only copied from gkwiki and ahirukumi, not Finella!!!!111one1!11″ statement.
I’ll give you a hint: this is how I see ahirukumi
Devil-related information on Ahirukumi comes mainly from client hacking, along with some reverse calculation. Have fun wondering where some of the data comes from.
You guys also NEVER seek the owner’s consent before you attempt to rip off the data, and didn’t credit him at all.
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I’ll be waiting for some lemming to start a thread on Aeria’s forums about this. *twiddles thumbs* It hasn’t been this fun to watch since you ran around waving your screens of hacked Lillith and Alice image >:3
You remind me of something…
Till date, Alice-haku still isn’t banned, even though tons of people got banned for fake screenshots…
Well, now the truth is out anyway. So if aeria have self respect, they will close down their own megaten wiki.
i don’t get it, you should be happy somebody actually uses your info besides yourself and your fwend… if you don’t wish people to use it and re-write it just shut down the blog again for christ sake, give access to a random few who still feel like kissing your ass “oh fifi-sama”
yes we should rly close down the wiki, srsly fifi sama and her fwend weren’t properly credited, nor was there enough brow-beating…
as we speak, aeria games is taking down the wiki and having a statue for the “oh mighty fifi-sama” made, the statues will stand in all important megaten locations…
*is the ungrateful troll who lashed out against fifi-sama*
i srsly hope this won’t rage break her again, using google to translate your moonspeak was horrible, but we do it for wikiwiki or jwiki on a daily basis, so my guess is we will survive ;o
and yeah i do appreciate what you did the both megaten communinities, but having a ego the size of small country is just silly :/
The inability to read is a pretty sad thing. My condolence to you.
“Data presented here are gotten MAINLY from reverse engineering Imagine’s client. A violation of your precious ToS. This isn’t about who owns what since information is ultimately shared, not owned. I don’t care that you ripped off information from my site. What I care about is WHY was it even done in the first place. WHY didn’t any GS raise any issue about it?”
Umm…learn to read?
6/10
@fifi & Rdee: you should look at the name he posted. Very fitting for the content. Too bad he forgot the mandatory typos & grammar errors hence just 6 instead of 8.
awww only 6 on the troll-o-meter? ._.
yes i am very sad i can’t get through your hard sarcasm, must have been aweful to spit that whole post out T_T
i hope your jaw doesn’t hurt you anymore fifi-sama…
if it still does practice, practice, it will hurt less the next time you do it, seeing as you got nothing else to write about i suspect there will be more aeria megaten bashing
it also seems that with you playing US megaten the way most of our players play on JP server it will be fun to troll you :D
oh yes, looking at the US server client files, making bots and rewriting hua po’s to look like liliths = playing megaten
and why do the dirty work youself when we all have somebody who can do it for us?
PS: anna i would like to get an 8 this time ;o
i will even try to get a few spelling mistakes in to keep you happy <3
You shouldn’t be so ashamed over your functional illiteracy.
I’m sure you’ll be able to find assistance for it.
*flaunts the functional illiteracy*
and i am too messed up to be able to find assistance oh dear fifi-sama
i just like to see how much more eloquent you become and all the pretty words you use when you think you will be able to scare somebody using bigga-bigga words
*bows and does a twirl*
Troll aside, in GS’s defense, the current ones aren’t the ones copying that info though.
And sure, it’s double standard, but as I’ve said a few times in aeria’s forum, I believe ToS was made to make the game enjoyable to people, to prevent them from cheating and gaining unfair advantage, and to prevent Aeria from losing money. Any violations should be investigated case by case to decide whether it’s harmful or not.
Thus what you did to acquire these infos, although technically violates ToS, should not be punished because it does no harm and actually benefits everyone. Therefore, the people that imported these infos also did no harm and should be left alone.
Considering the copypasta is reapplying to be a GS, with the “new compendium” listed as a contribution among others… I consider this an ongoing issue.
Not to mention Kuenaimaku and GMSeraphim has went through the new “infoz”, or else we won’t have this voting.
I can buy the “for greater good” argument, if the ToS is applied somewhat correctly on a constant basis.
Remember, a good number of people were banned over something as dumb as a badly forged screenshot and/or text/images on private sites.
Investigation were close to minimal for nearly all of those cases, and most don’t even know why they got banned.
Also, I’m pretty sure permission wasn’t obtained from ahirukumi, and I don’t see any reference to ahirukumi until Kuen went “but I didn’t copy!!!!1111one!!!!”.
Saying one thing and doing another is…?
being a fifi? ;o
…Hypocrisy at its best. To be honest, I’ve never really understood Aeria’s reason for being “all inclusive” in that clause of the terms. I mean sure, it is copyrighted material *points @ Atlus and Cave*, but geez, if they’re gonna invoke the copyright clause, then what about Cave’s Terms? o_O and they’re using it too? “プログラム等の改変、リバースエンジニアリング、解析、ユーティリティの作成、頒布、利用等の行為” (roughly) Programs such modification, reverse engineering, analysis, creation of utilities, distribution, and other acts of Use (art. 18, section 19) (Source: http://www.megatenonline.com/support/rules.html)
I guess there is always a time and place to “look the other way”, ne? Makes me wonder a lot about Aeria/Cave/Atlus/Developers/Publishers in general. They don’t exactly give us much in the way of information at all XD
The difference is Cave doesn’t really go salad ToSsing around unjustifiedly.
Okay well, they dont even bother much with regulating bots, or farmers (Hence they knew without farmers this game is dead) they also didnt listen and reply to customers complaints. They even actually knew that some players did client-hacking. (Just look at previous post on Shiva/Vishnu data).
Now, compare Cave to Aeria in terms of salad ToSsing~
I almost forgot an exception for hamster Cave:
using 0% cooldown = ToS Breaking~~
Technically, Cave’s ToS has some caveats to it that allows sites like Sherry’s or ahirukumi to exist.
In addition, like what Anna said, Cave’s lack of GM staff also means that the ToS isn’t applied that often, less the case with cooldown.
I agree with you about the unjustified bans. There was a topic in which some of us tried to get some response about the bans, and we got “those people got banned not because of a reason that they said they got banned for.” And considering how transparent Aeria is about bans, we couldn’t argue anymore.
And I didn’t take into account the data from ahirukumi when I posted, so I take the “only past GS are guilty” part.
I was linked to this in a forum pm, as I don’t check your blog.
I had no idea that she copied the format from here into the Wiki. I wouldn’t have made it into a poll if I knew this earlier. She kept on trying to replace the standard Demonic Compendium we have now with ‘hers’, so I did this to get her to stop, and for that, I’m sorry.
I really did contradict myself greatly there. I’m adding a footer to the demonic compendium page crediting Ahirukumi later today.
I’m sorry that I offended you.
Admitting part of the problem and giving proper credit is nice and all, but one issue still remain: why does ToS breaking information appear on the wiki?
Hmm, Seems like Aeria needs to force their lawyers to revise their terms of service now, ne?
who is this ‘she’ who keep trying to replace the compendium?
Slepial apparently. Considering She/He is reapplying for GS, wouldn’t it have been more apt for the person to actually give credit where credit’s due? Generally blatant plagiarism of others’ hard work is looked down upon (at least in an academic setting, not so sure about here).
well, credits aside the data were ToS breaking to begin with… using Ahirukumi’s data is also the same case.
Right mow, I’m waiting on an official answer for this. Seeing as I don’t have the official answer, I will give the main reason why I decided to start (or rather continue) updating our wiki with this ‘shady’ info.
The information is already readily available to the public who knows how to use google translate and read through a bit of engrish, and I thought that using half-correct info (due to translation errors) for a game was a pretty bad idea.
I started comparing and translating info into the wiki (more or less, continuing where another person had ended) because I thought that having a reliable source of info for the english translation is important. To sum it up, I did it for the greater good, believing that bending the rules in this case could be overlooked as it provided such a huge positive.
I honestly did not know that Ahirukumi recieved his information in this manner, but its also my fault that I didn’t look into how he got his info.
Now remember, this is not by any means AGE’s standing on this. It is mine and mine alone.
>> Translating
Don’t speak to me about translation unless you can speak proper Japanese, and understand enough about the nuance presented in the language. There are tons of things WRONG about most of the translation used by Aeria itself, but I’ll leave that for another day.
Using Google to translate != actual translation. There are various errors on the Aeria wiki pertaining to devil-related information.
e.g., Yaksa does NOT learn Kishin Nagi at 93. What he learns at that level is night sword.
This already undermines your “translation accuracy” stance. What you are doing is copying with some random guesswork. NOT translation.
Again, I can buy the “for greater good” argument if it’s actually consistent.
I have a very vivid memory of you tossing the ToS about for changing BGM, multiboxing and other minor issue, and in the multiboxing case, was a ToS tossed wrongly.
fifiii~ dont be such a meanie~ He is actually playing nice here. And it’s not like accurate info/TL are crucial, I mean, look at Lolilliterate’s comment on how they use google TL on daily basis and on how they will survive without your help like plasma nerf QQ megafest instead of google TLing wikiwiki on how to make money or Jiko traesto on full PT.
First of all, in the instances where I ‘threw’ around the ToS, I asked the GMs first for clarification. Multiboxing used to be considered against the ToS by the GMs until it was reviewed by one of our GMs. I can’t argue about how I used the ToS, since, I honestly look like a total hypocrite now due to this.
I can say that I was using the ToS in relation to making sure they wouldn’t get banned for a simple change that really isn’t said word for word.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not some evil guy who looks forward to telling people no, they can’t do it. I hate having to say no.
As to the topic about translating, I did use the wrong term there. Its really more similar to stabbing blindly and hoping for a correct hit. I’m sure there are a bunch of errors when it comes to moves. I want to fix that.
I still don’t have an official answer for the information yet, sorry.
Let’s rewind time back a bit, and pretend that multiboxing is defined in stone as a ToS violation.
Multiboxing, even if it’s a ToS violation, is something that aids people. That allows the transfer of items safely between characters etc… etc….
No modification is even required if two PCs are used.
Isn’t this… for the greater good of the players? Shouldn’t you at that point, bend the rules a little and overlook it?
Instead, you were the first sage in that topic to throw the ToS out about it.
So yes, you are totally hypocritical not because the ToS tossing turns out to be wrong. You look like one because you didn’t use the “for greater good” reasoning then, and only use it now when it’s convenient to you.
The more I learn reading your blog and comments… Illiteracy = bigga bigga word, eh? So, the rule of thumb is… what, anything over 3 or 4 syllables? =^.^=
Anyway, there have been cases where rules are bent for almighty “customer satisfaction”. You have to remember the hijinks involving one turkey and one fortunate pair of liars who had a GM gender bend non-trade. I pursued the question “If this was to happen to anyone of us, would we all get the same consideration and assistance” and the answer was – depending on the circumstances yes.
Which reminds me~ did we ever get a solid explanation as to why petitions are not allowed on forums?
yes probably anything more than 2 syllables is bigga bigga word =^.^=
and the more i read fifi-sama’s blog the more i wonder how low can you all ass-crawlers go? =^.^=
Ah… the deterioration from paragraph long attempts at making some sense to “you all ass-crawlers”. The village idiot is sad enough, but the person who is trying so desperately to play the part is one we can only feel sorry for… *patpatpat*
“ass crawlers” didn’t even offend anyone a bit to troll you back like how fifi offended you, lol-chan.
Please try harder, hmm?
i will =^.^=
i can only hold you as an example anna-desk but what a mighty example it is =^.^=
let’s see…
-offended level = 0. Nope.
-placement of desk isn’t right.
I can see you’re still struggling at this. One last chance. Do it right.
Guys, we shouldn’t discriminate someone just because they come from a harsh background.
While it’s rare these days, not everyone is blessed to have a proper education.
The ability to read is something we shouldn’t take for granted.
Once again, my dear, I offer my sincere condolences.
Words alone can’t express my grief and sympathy towards your plight.
Face value… Credit SHOULD ALWAYS BE GIVIN if it is taken from another source instead of yourself. Even being a former GS its kind of annoying to see the lack of credit where it should be givin.
nuff said
umad? =o